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NOTES ON THE CAMELFORD TOWN COUNCIL MEETING

1 March 2007

 

In attendance: Mayor J. Finch, Dep. Mayor B. Grills, J. Bass, B. Ireland,

P. Clark, A. Shaw, M. Williams, S. Elford, (L. Crockford will be late)

 

Minutes taken by Town Clerk B. Jordan

 

Public Participation

P Clark raised a point of order.  The clerk asked which standing order this referred to and was referred to a standing order.  P Clark said he did not have a valid agenda – his copy was showing 23 January and there were items on it which were relating to February.  A Shaw proposed and J Finch seconded that the date be changed.  The clerk said it was not a point of order but that he (Cllr Clark) was right.

The mayor said that the letter from John Finch would now be read under ‘Correspondence’.  P Clark asked if they were allowed to move an item without a vote after it had been put on the agenda.    J Finch proposed, B Ireland seconded that the letter be moved to ‘Correspondence’, 7 in favour, P Clark abstained.  Frank Samuel said he had written two letters – J Finch said these were to come up under public participation.    She then read a letter from Di Pengelly, present at this meeting, saying she was disgusted with Cllr Clark for calling the mayor a liar, that it was the sort of behaviour to be seen in the playground and she hoped Cllr Clark would have the decency to apologise to the mayor.  Cllr Clark said that things said in the Standards Board hearing were privileged as in a court of law and could not be used later.  P Clark asked if he could reply to this, and read out his reply to John Finch’s letter, which Cllr Clark said applied equally to Di Pengelly’s letter, he also gave a letter to each councillor.  He said to the mayor that since her husband ‘had not even turned up here tonight’ would she be good enough to deliver his reply.  The mayor said she would.  The mayor then read out Frank Samuel’s letter.  He was questioning the fact that the clerk had been given permission by council (as stated in council minutes – ‘there were no objections’) to ask questions of Cllr Lush.  This had not been Frank Samuel’s recollection and the mayor had now stated that she was not now sure.  She said she had looked around and nobody raised any objections.  Frank Samuel left the meeting abruptly saying that ‘it is a waste of time my being here’ and the door slammed behind him.  The mayor exclaimed “Well !” but continued to go through his letters which raised the issue of ‘incorrectly ratified minutes’ of the Car Park sub-committee and the subsequent full Council meeting of 20th Feb. The Mayor stated that the matter of the different minutes (£60 vs £100) had been discussed at the Car Park Sub Committee meeting of 15 February and will be brought forward under item 13, Reports at tonight’s meeting.

 

  1. APOLOGIES – B Lush, D Pierce on holiday.  L Crockford would arrive at 8.30.  Acceptance proposed A Shaw, seconded S Elford, all in favour.
  2. RECEIVE DECLARATION OF INTEREST
    1. Agenda items – B Grills 12b, close to home.  J Bass, cheque 9e, committee member.  A Shaw 12a, family friend.
    2. Gifts in excess of £25 – none.
  3. MINUTES – to receive and approve minutes of 20 February.  The clerk said he had received amendments from B Ireland.  These had been circulated and included (apart from public participation).   The clerk also said he should have included apologies from Cllr Bass (hospital).  P Clark said that a vote had been taken about apologies and this could not now be changed.  He asked, “Could council now legitimately include an apology.”  He was told that it would be recorded in this meeting’s minutes.  P Clark continued that in public participation the minutes had shown ‘the Standards Board hearing’.  That had not been mentioned.  The minutes continued ‘against Cllr Ireland’.  The Standards Board meeting was not ‘against’ anyone – it investigates complaints.  The clerk said ‘if you want the minutes changed you can, but you should not discuss ……’.  P Clark proposed that the libellous statements against the mayor be removed.  He further proposed that the public participation minutes end at ‘on 1st February the Mayor will reply at the next meeting.’   P Clark continued saying that if it was voted on as true, will the mayor take the Clerk to court, if so, he (Cllr Clark) would be willing to back the mayor’s case if she chose to prosecute the Clerk.   M Williams said he had not understood the wording of Cllr Clark’s objection, he did not understand the allegation against the town clerk.  P Clark said that J Finch had said she had been accused of lying in a meeting last Friday.  I (Cllr Clark) said, yes, that was true.  J Finch said she thought that a resolution was needed to accept the minutes.  P Clark proposed leaving out everything as above, seconded B Ireland, two in favour, B Ireland and P Clark, 5 against, J Bass abstained.  B Ireland said he had another amendment – there were three people who left the meeting after item 16 and it was not mentioned.  The clerk said there were four councillors remaining and he remembered who they were (J Finch, B Grills, M Williams, A Shaw).  P Clark, B Ireland and S Elford all left and did not vote.  J Finch asked if she could have a proposal, subject to the accepted amendments.  A Shaw proposed, M Williams seconded, 5 in favour, P Clark B Ireland against, J Bass abstained.

P Clark said he wanted it minuted that  “I wish to formally dissociate myself from the acceptance of the minutes because the public participation is totally untrue”.   M Williams said that that implied that the people who voted to accept the minutes were also liars.  He would not accept that.  J Finch said she thought the meeting should move on.  P Clark said he was not the one who signed the minutes.

  1. ITEMS CARRIED FORWARD FROM THE LAST MEETING
    1. Traffic monitoring – northing further, c/f
    2. Seat in Victoria Road – the clerk had spoken to Mr McLeod.  To be put in place when the road is finished, which should be in about 3 weeks c/f
    3. Assets Register – the clerk said Cllr Ireland had been through some 41 of the floppy disks (approximately 200 had been mentioned at the previous CTC meeting) and saved the information onto a CD.  B Ireland said that the Application for Borrowing Approval had been on a disk and it listed a number of major items – it was now on the CD which is in the Clerk’s possession.  J Finch asked if it had matched the list provided by the clerk.  B Ireland said he had not looked.  B Grills asked that Cllr Ireland be thanked for looking at the disks.  P Clark asked what had happened to the other 160 floppy disks.  The clerk said there were some with financial stuff on which he was keeping and some with risk assessments on and these would not be of help in resolving the query over the Assets Register.
    4. Poltair Properties – no reply yet.
  2. ANSWERS TO PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 20 FEBRUARY MEETING – already done.
  3. TO ANSWER QUESTIONS OR OBSERVATIONS FROM COUNCILLORS OF WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN –
    1. B Ireland said that the only people to have the minutes are members of the council.  Not everyone had access to the web.  Minutes used to be put in the Library, but none has been put there since July last year.  B Ireland said that since the file was so out of date the minutes folder was kept in the back room of the Library.  The clerk said he would go to the Library the next day and check.  B Ireland said he thought it was very important that the minutes should be available to members of the public.  A Shaw agreed that minutes should be put in the Library.  The clerk said he had not done it since he came back (from holiday).  B Ireland said the strange thing was that since the meeting when council agreed to put sub-committee meeting minutes in the Library none had been put in there.  (6 July 2006).  Before that agreement, sub-committee minutes had not been put there.
  4. ITEMS REQUIRING A DECISION
    1. ProHelp free training, funding applications and employment law, 27 March, 9 – 11 am.  At Follett Stock at Truro Business Park.  The clerk thought he should go.  If any member could also go the deadline is 13 March.   Proposed by B Grills, seconded by J Finch that the clerk and one other councillor should go.  All in favour.
    2. From Car Park Sub-Committee, purchase of camera for use of car park attendant – the clerk had looked and the best buy which would be compatible with his computer would be £49.99 from Argos.  B Ireland asked if it would record the date.  The clerk said it could be made to do that, but other clerks had said it is better to use a laptop because the computer would record the date the information was down-loaded.  B Ireland – OK.  A Shaw asked if it was worth doing.  The clerk though perhaps this should wait until the meeting went into secret session.  J Finch said it should be deferred to the next meeting, proposed A Shaw, seconded B Ireland, all in favour.
    3. NSPCC Child Protection Awareness Programmes - £22.50 to send staff on training for work with children.  J Finch proposed it be left, seconded A Shaw, all in favour.
  5. ITEMS FOR INFORMATION
    1. Barkers, completion of third quarterly audit – no adjustments identified or notified.  No problems, so for the last 3 quarters no queries had been raised by the auditors.  J Finch said everything matched to the penny.
    2. Section 137 9LGA 1972 (4)(a)) cash limit for 2007/8 set at £5.64 per elector.  B Ireland asked how this compared with what had been budgeted for.  The clerk said £1000 – well within the amount specified.
    3. Health Protection Agency, free Radon test for homeowners – posters issued to councillors.
    4. Devon and Cornwall Police Authority Liaison meeting, Parkhouse Centre Bude 8 March at 7.30.  J Finch said 8 March was the evening for the council training session, so nobody would be able to go to that.  She asked the clerk to write to D & C Police Authority explaining this.
  6. FINANCE
    1. Cheques for payment – M Williams said he was concerned about the way some of the work was being carried out.  He had been into the office to look for time sheets.  He did not think council should pay if evidence was not available.  J Finch said that was on the agenda as staff issues in the item later in ‘Exempt Information’.  M Williams asked if one particular cheque was involved.  B Ireland asked for the value because council must not deal with un-named amounts.  M Williams proposed that this (Item 9a) Cheques for Payment, be moved into the secret session, seconded B Ireland, 6 in favour, P Clark against, J Bass abstained.
  7. RESOLUTION OR RECOMMENDATIONS FROM COUNCILLORS
    1. Under standing order 36 resolution signed by four members of the council – M Williams, A Shaw, B Ireland, J Finch.  J Finch apologised, on the night she had thought it OK (at the previous meeting she had asked for the meetings in May to be moved because of the Local Government elections), but she now wanted to move that the meeting be held on 10 May 2007 (the Annual Meeting), not 15th.  She will be going on holiday on 14 May and has to hand over to the new mayor.  Proposed A Shaw, seconded J Bass, all in favour.
  8. CORRESPONDENCE
    1. Invitation to attend the AGM of the Cornwall County Playing Fields Assocation, 8 May, Lanhydrock Golf Club, Bodmin – B Grills proposed no action because she felt this was a “useless exercise”, seconded J Finch, all in favour.
    2. District Council elections – leaflets in office.
    3. PCT – letter saying they will respond as soon as possible.  Also letter from Department of Health concluding that Cornwall and Isles of Scilly PCT was the best body to reply.
    4. From L Mabson thanking council for free parking for the Ministerial Synod.
    5. Letter/email from Mr Chappel from the ‘Celtic League’ about demonstration in Truro on St George’s Day against ‘this English celebration’.
    6. Undergrounding of cables –Trefrew road closed 3 March all day.
    7. Letter from Judith Teasdale, interviewed for the Parks for People post – saying she had been enchanted by Enfield Park and she would be happy to give free advice at any time.
    8. Penalty for parking in Churchfield Car Park – no reply received following court case.  Cost for the bailiffs going in £35.  Money will be refunded.  A Shaw proposed it go ahead, seconded B Grills, 6 in favour, B Ireland and P Clark against.
    9. Letter from Ken and Mary Harris – dismayed at the lack of pride in our town council.  And lack of respect for the mayor.  They have sympathy for the onerous duties of the council (and the clerk) under thankless circumstances.
    10. Letter from John Finch to Cllr Clark, which the mayor gave to the deputy mayor to read, this asked Cllr Clark to apologise for calling the Mayor a liar or Mr Finch would report Cllr Clark to the Standards Board – P Clark said he wondered how he (Mr Finch) knew.  The mayor replied that she had gone home and said ‘that man called me a liar again’.  P Clark said he had not said that.  J Finch said ‘we won’t get into that again’.
  9. PLANNING APPLICATION
    1. 2007/00255 – A Shaw proposed no objection, seconded by B Grills, all in favour.
    2. 2007/00304 – A Shaw said it was a big footprint and he had reservations as it did not leave much recreational room.  M Williams proposed no objection, seconded B Ireland, 7 in favour, A Shaw abstained.

A Shaw said he was alarmed at what was going on at Inns Park.  Council had opposed 62 units and he had noticed that a large digger had moved in.  All the hedges had been cleared along the A30 today.  They seemed to have started work already.  The clerk said he had contacted NCDC and C Leggatt is going to investigate.  A Shaw said council had not received a final notification.  The clerk said an approval notice had not been received.  A Shaw said that nobody knows if it is going to be 50 or 62 houses.  Clerk to check.

  1. COMMITTEE REPORTS
    1. Car Park Committee 15 February 2007 – B Ireland asked that before a vote was taken he had two items for Council to consider – B Ireland said he had got a copy from the clerk of the Amendment Order, also the one which went into the newspaper.  Cllr Ireland said, “If you looked at it you would find it does not say anything at all about excess penalties on the two car parks that have just been taken over.  It refers to the Churchfield Car Park.  It says Churchfield Car Park, schedule and tariff.  Underneath is the new parking and no mention of any penalties.  I raised this with NCDC and I happened to meet David Hooper.  He has said that I could be right and he would like to see the entire Off Street Parking Order.  He (Mr Hooper) is willing to come out and go through it with you (CTC), if you wish.  He has reservations, as I have.  In my experience you put items underneath the headings that they relate to.”  The clerk said he had checked these with NCDC and CCC and there were no objections.  J Finch said she could see what Cllr Ireland meant.  Perhaps council should get in touch with David Hooper and make an appointment with him.  She added we can hopefully get this sorted out.

B Ireland said that the other thing was that he has an authorised transcript of the Bodmin case (CTC v J. Harman).  He did not want to talk about it but was just telling council that he has it, from Compril, a member of the Department of Constitutional Affairs.  If council wants to look at it before they make any decisions he would be happy to let them see it.  It is verbatim.  J Finch said that the (committee) report would be adopted as what happened at the meeting.  A Shaw moved adoption of the report, seconded M Williams, 4 in favour, B Ireland, P Clark against, two abstentions.

  1. REPORTS
    1. Town Forum – J Finch reported – letter to PCT, Jessica Pytel leaving, Bowithick Tip, four days agreed, petition against incinerator, press release on phase II of Camelford HERS project, St John Fireworks invoice, council has been paid.  Skip in the area between the Darlington and the Library taking up 3 spaces, B Ireland said only two now.  Broadwood Path – B Ireland has found further funding.  Wendy Burbeck from Sir James Smith school is looking for projects for the Duke of Edinburgh Awards.  Path on Sportsmans Road.  To direct holiday traffic – sign should be permanent but moved.  Primary School, Sir James Smith’s and through school.  M Williams said that Simone had just set up a website for the through school.  Rubbish between Clease Road and Highfield disgusting.  L Mabson, the Cormac wall (outside the Library) will be done to a height of 1 metre.  CAR cleaning the river in April.  15 March next CAR meeting.  Write to Mark Hall about the CCC unitary authority bid, A Shaw proposed writing as soon as possible, B Ireland seconded, 7 in favour, P Clark against.
    2. CDCDT – nothing to report.
    3. Youth Club – M Williams said they were hoping to raise some funds (£300) for the kids to go to see Grease (or perhaps something else).  J Finch asked if that would be after the Easter Fayre.  M Williams replied “As and when”.  A Shaw said that the ATC (Air Training Corps) is to attend the youth club.
    4. HERS – nothing to report, coming to an end.
    5. Mayor’s report – J Comber had met Paul Allen at Sportsmans Road, the footpath will cost £100 per metre, for 200 metres.  If it were possible to narrow the road and have a narrow footway that would be cheaper.  The width of the footway would be important for wheelchair users.  Victoria Road – Trefrew Road also a problem for wheelchair users.  24 February, “Thinking Day” to commemorate the Baden-Powells with the Guides, theme Happy Birthday.  8 March is the date set for training of Councillors.
    6. Other reports –

                                          i.    A Shaw had had a phone call reference footpath – it is suggested that a barrier be erected as a safety measure.

L Crockford arrived at 8.30pm.

M Williams said a staggered barrier works well.  B Grills pointed out that was no good for wheelchair access.  The clerk asked if he should write, but it was felt that Highways should be asked to write, citing Health and Safety.

                                        ii.    B Ireland said that during her report on 20 February he had asked the mayor why it was she had not reported on the 8 February (Standards Board hearing). He addressed the Mayor saying, “You replied that you had not received that judgment, but you had received the judgment of the one on 16 February and when I looked at your report it referred to ‘in a robust and insensitive manner, but the content, tone and manner could not be regarded as …’.  Paragraph 5.5.2 of the judgment says ‘we do not consider  …….  The contents, tone and manner of the delivery of the speech was robust.’  It did not mention insensitive.  This is the decision – you are quite welcome to look at it – the word insensitive does not appear.  To embellish the truth is not good and I do not like it.”  P Clark said he did not like it in council minutes either.  B Ireland continued that he would not call the mayor a liar, but in Churchill’s words she was guilty of a terminological inexactitude.  J Finch replied ‘point taken’.  The clerk said that if councillors stopped arguing there would be no problem with the minutes. 

  1. NEWSLETTER

A Shaw said he wanted something in for CDCDT.  P Clark said that the cherry tree was in flower, the mayor agreed that it was beautiful.  P Clark said that a toddler had almost walked into the water outflow from the river.  J Finch said that the pipes were clogged up with duckweed.  B Ireland offered the use of drain clearance rods.  A Shaw said that it should be CDCDT not CTC for the housing project.  M Williams said there should be a contact number for Charles Whitehead, B Grills agreed and said it should be in a box.  Surgeries for council elections – needs to be soon.  What about a Friday and Saturday, 16/17 March between 10 am and 1 pm.  The clerk reported that £1000 had now been exceeded on parking permit sales.  10 March at 10 am in the loft to find out what if anything of importance is there.  B Ireland, talking about M Williams article about the Truro court case (J Harman v CTC), said that Judge Mitchell made it clear that it was won on technical grounds – he had also described this as an unedifying case.  He was very clear that it was won on a legal technicality.  M Williams said he had taken his article from the written judgment – nowhere does he say that he accepts the evidence.  B Ireland said it was only as a technicality and he was so, so sorry.  He (Cllr Ireland) was just telling Cllr Williams to be cautious.  If he was happy to leave the article as it is, it would be up to him.  P Clark said why could we not just say, after ‘the town council’ and get rid of the bold bit after that.  M Williams said it was published in the town and he stood by what he had written.  P Clark said that council needed to vote on this.  M Williams said this was taken from the judgment.  He had been talking to some lawyers who said in their opinion Julian Harman had been wrongly advised.  If he wished to take further action it should be against his lawyer.  J Finch said that that was what the judgment said.  M Williams said he would amend it, but J Finch said ‘it will stay’.  Proposed J Finch, seconded A Shaw, 7 in favour, P Clark and B Ireland against.  Easter Fayre – 4 Seasons would do burgers and hot dogs – any profit to go to charity.  M Williams asked what about crossing the road.    B Ireland asked if the premises licence had been applied for because of the Easter Fayre.  He said he had seen it in the paper and he had not been able to understand it.  The clerk said he had been sent the documents and NCDC had sent the wrong thing.  It was the way it was produced and a couple of things had been missed.  It will be going out again next week.  He said it should include everything you do.  B Ireland said it did not say where the premises were.  The clerk said it would be done with everything right.

  1. ITEMS FOR 20 MARCH – nothing.
  2. EXEMPT INFORMATION – A Shaw proposed, B Grills seconded, 7 in favour, P Clark against, B Ireland abstained that council go into secret session.

 

End of notes taken by Clare Ireland and Eddie McCormick

 

 

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