NOTES ON THE MEETING OF CAMELFORD TOWN COUNCIL
7 SEPTEMBER 2006
Those present : J Finch (chair), B Grills (deputy), B Lush, B Ireland, P Clark, D Pierce, A Shaw, L Crockford, S Elford, B Jordan (clerk)
Public Participation
B Jordan stood up with letters from Huw Huntley. Huw Huntley said that B Jordan had censored his letter as he (BJ) considered it to be libellous. Huw Huntley said he was still not happy about how it had been dealt with. This was a letter addressed to the mayor, dated 12 July. He informed the clerk that paragraph one had been dealt with, the item concerned having been fixed, but that the letter had asked the clerk to read paragraph two. When the letter was delivered B Jordan confirmed that it would be read out in full. He had accepted the clerk’s word that he would read this out and he felt let down that this was not done. The content was not inflammatory as the clerk said and was not, as was also said, meant to stir up trouble. He said that he is not a troublemaker. He had spoken to the clerk on Monday (4 September) when the clerk said that his letter was libellous. B Jordan interjected that he had not said that. Huw Huntley insisted that he had and B Jordan did not object further. Huw Huntley had received no reply to his letter and felt that the town council appears to have a policy of non co-operation. For instance, draft minutes are no longer published. The council still acts in a very autocratic manner in deciding what is council business. For example with John Hough and Mr Harman, dialling 999 and misuse of disabled parking space by the deputy mayor. On 18 July it was stated that there was no correspondence. ‘There was my letter. I rest my case.’
M Williams – holiday, J Sanders – honeymoon. Acceptance proposed by A Shaw, seconded by S Elford, 8 in favour, PC abstained.
B Lush – item 4k, 18c on the minutes, grit bin, should it not be dog bin. Are we no longer responsible for dog bins. B Jordan said that the one referred to belongs to NCDC and it is being dealt with. B Lush also said that item 6b, to be fair it should have been said on there that D Pierce said that he had been electioneering and under protest apologised unreservedly for his remarks. He asked for that to be added. B Ireland – item 2 under acceptance of the minutes, proposers and seconders missing and A Shaw had agreed with him. This had not been shown on the minutes, also that it had been agreed to revert to the previous system. B Jordan said that it would be preferable if there are disagreements about the minutes that he should be told before the meeting. B Ireland said that unfortunately he had gone through these minutes this afternoon. B Jordan said that he had had the minutes since last Wednesday. B Ireland said that he is tired and still snoozes most afternoons.
B Ireland went on to question many items on the minutes (notes shown separately) including item 6a when he had raised the question of secret sessions. J Finch said that they were not secret sessions, but ‘in committee’. B Ireland said that they have to be on the agenda, it says in the standing orders that they should be added to the agenda. You should not introduce agenda items after councillors leave the meeting. (this referred to the letter from M Baber complaining about the clerk) B Jordan said ‘the letter was addressed to you, madam mayor’. He also said that (referring to matters arising) Sara Mason had been adamant that they should only record resolutions. B Grills proposed that we defer acceptance of these minutes to the next meeting. P Clark said that the clerk said any changes to the minutes should be presented to him before the meeting. When he had emailed the clerk about such a change he had been told that it should be discussed at the next council meeting. J Finch said that that was because it was the words which P Clark had wanted changed. The clerk said that he could amend the minutes and send out fresh ones. A Shaw proposed deferring acceptance of the minutes, seconded by S Elford, 7 in favour, B Lush and J Finch abstained.
B Lush declared a personal interest in Clease Hall, but J Finch interjected and asked him to read the last paragraph of a document which she passed to him before declaring an interest, since she felt that they would be asked to make a decision about ‘the allocation of significant public funds’. B Lush said that, as he had already said, it was a personal interest and that he would not vote. He is a trustee of the hall as representative of another body. B Ireland declared an interest in 4f, as council representative on the hall committee and 11c as it related to his wife and 11e as he is project manager. He also said that he had received a telephone call from a lady at the Standards Board and she had asked him about why people declared interests. He had replied that he did not know why because they did not say. She was surprised and referred him to Standing Order 57, Model Code of Conduct 2001, 2A, also Standing Order 15. Members are supposed to say the nature of the interest they are declaring. If any members had attended Sally Lloyd-Jones’ lecture, it is in there, clear as a bell, and the Act of Parliament. He also said that there is a format for the agenda – a set sequence – and interests should be declared immediately before the relevant item. B Jordan said that this is part of his present course and there will be a new agenda for next month – it will be done in the proper manner. B Lush asked if members have to vote to change the agenda. B Jordan said no, the agenda is a matter for the clerk and as B Ireland says it should be done to a special format. Other members then gave the reasons for their already declared interests, B Grills 4f, 12c and 12d, J Finch 12c, B Lush 4f, 7c, 12d, B Ireland 4f, 11c, 11e, L Crockford 4l, 17a, S Elford 7c, 17b.
a .gov.uk – set date for the meeting. B Grills suggested mid October, but not 18th. B Jordan will arrange. B Ireland asked how long it would take and was told 1½ to 2 hours.
b Chapel Street – no further information.
c Traffic monitoring – this concerns pedestrian safety and J Finch said she had spoken to Oskar van Winden and he would like to extend the pavement between the crossing and the Co-op to encourage drivers to pull away from the loading area and encourage proper use of the give way system. He felt that it was a Saturday problem (much laughter) and that the signs were sufficient. J Finch continued that she and the clerk had seen caravans being driven down the pavement; the clerk took photographs. It was agreed that it was mostly down to impatience. Oskar van Winden will do a plan, also a plan of the alterations to Town Trust land, before the next meeting. A Shaw said that regarding the bollards on High Street, it was felt that it could be dangerous and that Oskar had previously stated this. Raising of the kerb could be problematic. He said that a combine harvester came through and was so wide it went on to both pavements – the only way it could get through. J Finch said that it should not have been coming through the town, but when B Ireland asked if it should not have been going further out A Shaw said that those roads would not cope with the width. B Grills said that the sign which says priority is too high and should be lowered. J Finch agreed that in a saloon car you cannot see the traffic at the other end, and what had happened to the cameras that were supposed to monitor the traffic.. A Shaw said that Phase 2 is coming up and we should write to Highways about another set of lights, possibly at the expense of the pelican lights. J Finch said she thought the lights were to have been linked. B Lush said that if a box junction were to be put at the co-op junction there would be no problem. A Shaw told him that that did not work in Bodmin. J Finch proposed that we write to Oskar van Winden, seconded by B Ireland, all in favour.
d Brown tourist signs – no further information. B Lush asked if anyone else had noticed the state of the signs – they are filthy. Apparently NCDC has a contract to clean them. A Shaw proposed, B Lush seconded that Cormac should be asked to clean them as and when, all in favour.
e Parking on Town Trust land – B Jordan suggested it be deferred until the meeting on Monday night (Car Park committee). J Finch asked if Mr Mabson would be there, or any member of the Town Trust. J Finch proposed, A Shaw seconded that this would be deferred as above, all in favour.
f Camelford Hall, request for grant – no decision had been received on the dispensation, but S Lloyd-Jones had advised that the council can discuss and vote. As B Lush is chair of the Hall he has to declare an interest, personal or prejudicial. The amount is £3,000. B Lush said that when P Blower was on the council the figure mentioned for council grants was 10%. J Finch proposed that council grant £380. B Grills asked which budget. B Jordan said reserve or 137. A Shaw thought it should be 137 as it benefited all of the community. A Shaw seconded the proposal, 6 in favour, D Pierce against, B Lush, B Grills abstained.
g Letter from Pat Reid about Enfield Park – J Finch said that the clerk has noticed that the park has been quite tidy for the last three weeks. B Jordan said that he had been talking to the youngsters in the park and they have been very helpful in keeping things in good order. For example, one of the swings was broken and they told him and helped him to mend it. B Lush proposed that the press should report that. B Jordan said that perhaps we could take on community service people to keep the town clean. B Jordan to reply to Pat Reid.
h Celebrity for Christmas Lights – B Jordan said that he had managed to contact a lady called Lucy, Martin Clunes’s agent, asking if he can do it. No reply yet. Atlantic Radio is going to send someone.
i Town Infrastructure, Business Park – J Finch and D Pierce had had a meeting with Dan Rogerson on 1 September and the discussions were on the growth of Camelford and the infrastructure. NCDC has earmarked land but it will only become available once the distributor road is done. J Finch said that there is a petition and at Dan Rogerson’s suggestion she would like to make a presentation in Downing Street or to the Minister of Transport. She is going to London in November and will do it then. B Lush suggested that we get some photographs of the size of vehicle going through the town. B Grills said that she had felt for a long time that NCDC should earmark some industrial land for Camelford, but should it be before or after the distributor road. B Lush said that perhaps we can point out that this town is blighted. A Shaw pointed out that CDCDT is searching for land for just that purpose – we do need work in Camelford. Most people would favour the Camelford Station area, which is well serviced. A Shaw proposed that the council formulate a plan with Cornwall County Council and NCDC and push it forward. Seconded by B Grills, 8 in favour, P Clark against.
j Press reports – J Finch said she thought that was P Clark’s (see 7a).
k Grit bins – we have lost one from outside Lloyds Bank , and another one from the Countryman Hotel. There is a seat there which could cause a problem, but B Grills said it was vital we have a seat there. D Pierce said he would like to have a seat by the bus stop in Victoria Road. J Finch asked D Pierce to get an idea of the costs. The clerk to write to Highways to get the bins replaced before the winter.
l Police Authority – traffic warden and the policing of traffic in the town –J Finch said that the traffic warden had told her that in a couple of years they will no longer come under the police but the council (CCC or NCDC). B Lush said that at a police meeting the Chief Inspector at Truro had said that that would be OK for unitary authorities but impractical for small towns. A Shaw suspected that this was a way for the police authorities to reduce their expenditure. J Finch suggested that we should wait and see what happens.
None
a B Lush asked what in financial terms did the council’s recent civic service cost. He said that if consideration is to be given to holding an annual service council needs to know the costs. J Finch said that she had asked the clerk to cost this for invitations, and with his time (£10.25 per hour), stationery and postage it had come to £38.95. The band had accepted a donation from the mayor’s allowance and the food and drink had been provided by J Finch and B Grills. B Lush asked – and for the next one? J Finch said that the band would be quite happy to do it for a donation again and A Shaw pointed out that council supports the band quite well. B Lush said that the mayor’s allowance may have to be increased to cover this. A Shaw said that he had enjoyed the event. B Lush said that when setting the precept we should decide on next year’s service. The total cost was £38.95 and the matter was deferred to the October Agenda.
b D Pierce, Camelford Football Club – B Jordan said he had received a letter from R Cook thanking the council for the £7,000 donation. The official opening of the new site would be soon. D Pierce said that he had voted that the club needed the £7,000 and council did not get an acknowledgement. However, they held a do at Tregoodwell, but there was no invite to the town council and the forum. B Grills said she had made a few enquiries and as she understood it the big fundraiser was organised by different members of the football club, so the people dealing with the financial side had not been involved.
c D Pierce, proposed new medical centre – D Pierce said that in drawing the council’s attention to the new centre there are several aspects which we should be interested in. We had a meeting with the project manager about site access. We then get a plan and the building itself will be five times bigger than the church and it will completely dominate that area. What facilities it will offer is also up in the air and we should have some input. The plan shows only 10 parking spaces, 3 of which will be disabled. We should consider
a Impact on the car park and area
b Facilities for the town.
B Ireland asked if the car parking spaces would be for staff or patients. This is not known, just that there will be 10 with 3 disabled. B Lush asked if access would be through the car park. D Pierce said yes. B Lush said that it is a matter for the church, but it seems a pity that they will no longer have the option to enlarge the church. D Pierce said that the Forum should be involved as well. We should have an input into it. B Lush said that if it is a monstrosity it can be seen from a lot of places in the town. B Grills said the perhaps the building can be lowered so it is not as visible. She thought council should contact Churchfield Medical Centre and also the appropriate bodies, Community First, to give us a presentation. (It will be a private finance initiative.) B Ireland said that it is difficult car parking in the town car park if you are feeling unwell. A Shaw said that if this building gets planning permission they may have to use the land where the present building is as a medical car park. B Jordan to contact them for a presentation and D Pierce asked him to also invite the chairman of the Forum. J Finch said it should be a presentation open to all.
d B Lush, what was the chain the deputy was seen to be wearing when photographed presenting the ‘Camelford in Bloom’ awards in today’s Cornish Guardian – B Grills said that the chain was the mayoral chain without the bauble and in past years the mayor has done exactly the same and allowed the deputy mayor to wear the chain, ‘I have done nothing wrong’. B Lush said that he had not been allowed to wear any part of the chain. A Shaw said he had worn the chain without the bauble. B Lush said perhaps we should have a chain for the deputy. S Elford said that they could wear the chain without the bauble. B Jordan said there is nothing set down, it is up to council to decide. J Finch said that there is a ribbon in the office, but it was very uncomfortable to wear, although something like that could be appropriate. B Grills said that many years ago council had had a similar conversation. When they went into it, it was far too expensive. Council should think about it before setting the precept. D Pierce proposed that in the meantime whoever represents the town should wear the chain, complete, seconded by P Clark, 5 in favour, B Lush against, J Finch and B Grills abstained.
a P Clark, statements issued to the press and public by the mayor without council approval. P Clark had two proposals
1 that if councillors make a report they should provide copies for other councillors, also, as it is OK to mildly abuse each other
2 in the future I propose that councillors restrict their abuse to other councillors only.
D Pierce said that there are many occasions when the press telephone to ask for a comment on decisions. I would have hated to think I had to refer back to the council. P Clark said that as long as they were circulated – we would like copies please. A Shaw said that if you are asked to comment on a decision that should be minuted. If it is your own personal opinion it should be stated so. P Clark said that this is about the mayor’s report. J Finch said it was not a report but a personal statement and that must be changed in the minutes (of 3 August). B Ireland said that if it is a personal statement it should not be discussed in council. You (J Finch) have told various people off about council business. If it is not it should not come up at all. You brought the gavel down on me twice and you reported me to the Standards Board. J Finch said that is private and confidential, it is not why I reported you to the Standards Boards, and I will not comment. P Clark’s proposal 1 – seconded by B Ireland 2 in favour, remainder abstained. B Ireland turned to B Lush and said ‘aren’t you going to vote for that, B Lush laughed but did not vote. P Clark’s proposal 2 – no seconder.
b South West Regional Tree Warden Scheme Forum Invitation. 14 October, 10 am – 4.30 pm, Boconnoc House – cost £15 including refreshments. A Shaw agreed to attend, proposed by B Lush, seconded S Elford, 8 in favour, A Shaw abstained.
c The Methodist Church, request for 25 free parking spaces in Churchfield Car Park on 7 February for the Ministerial Synod – B Lush declared a personal interest, also S Elford. A Shaw asked why they do not use the coach park. B Grills said that in February, on a Wednesday, we should look upon this favourably, to use the top end of the car park, as we did for residents of Clease when the carnival fair was there, but wait to give out permits. For December meeting. J Finch proposed council writes and discusses this again in December, seconded B Grills, 5 in favour, B Lush, B Ireland, P Clark abstained.
d Letter from Mr O Gorur to use Churchfield Car Park to site a mobile Pizza, Sandwich and Burger Bar – B Lush said that surely part of the conditions of the sale to us from NCDC was that it was not to be used for commercial purposes. P Clark said that the town has many food services, they all pay their rates, this would not contribute anything. A Shaw proposed refusal, seconded B Lush, all in favour.
e CCC Local Maintenance Partnership, invitation for two representatives to meeting 27 September at 7 pm, Shire House, Bodmin – planned maintenance for pathways (Camelford has 18 classified gold and 18 silver). A Shaw said that the clerk should be put in charge and B Ireland said that a member of the Amenities Committee should attend. A Shaw said he was available and would go with the clerk, meet at 6.15. All in favour (no proposer or seconder)
a NCDC performance plan 2006/6 – available
b Cornwall Waste Action co-ordinators report – 30 year contract
c North and East Cornwall PCT – public information campaign, to be included in discussions about medical centre.
d CCC worried about waste leaflet – available
e CCC notice of road closure, A39 between Valley Truckle and Knightsmill Hill, Helstone, 9 October for two weeks, to remove and replace road surface. Alternative route via Bodmin.
f Parks for people, meeting with Kelly Spry-Phare 13 September 2 pm to discuss anomalies in information and to sort this out. The application has to be right first time. P Clark asked what was Charles Whitehead’s status. J Finch said he is helping at the moment.
P Clark said that the totals were wrong. J Finch said they knew. B Jordan said it was his fault – he had taken out the wages but had not taken it from the total. P Clark commented that now it was public knowledge. B Ireland asked about VAT £204.75. B Jordan explained that our insurers cannot claim the VAT but we can. He said that he had an invoice for the cost of the payment that the insurance company has paid the solicitors, excluding the Vat. So we have an invoice for the full amount, but we have only paid the VAT. P Clark asked should not we have the full amounts which will be claiming back. A Shaw said that this was still an ongoing item. B Lush said you can work out what the total is. B Ireland said he had never come across this before. B Jordan said if you come into the office you can read this document. B Ireland said he was still puzzled about payments made during the recess. In the Financial Regulations document it gives items which can be paid but not passed by council. There was nothing urgent in the list shown. He added that with regard to the Financial Regulations we either make rules and follow them or we forget them. A Shaw said it should be passed in the August meeting that the clerk can pay cheques as necessary. B Ireland said that it was not minuted. B Jordan said it was a matter of perception. There followed discussion during which NALC regulations on Payment of Accounts, item 6.4 was discussed. (This says ‘If a payment is necessary to avoid a charge to interest under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998, and the due date for payment is before the next scheduled Meeting of Council …). J Finch said these items were due for payment, but B Ireland and P Clark said they had to satisfy both conditions, due for payment and to avoid interest. A Shaw said that that would not be possible. B Ireland said then you have to change the regulations. He continued that council either adopts these things, or do not. B Jordan said perhaps he had been wrong to claim his expenses. Regarding the Lappset repair, there had been damage to the seat in the play area. D Pierce thought we had had money left over to pay for the bandstand. B Jordan said yes, that is why it was taken out of the fund. They may ask for it back. Approval of accounts proposed by A Shaw, seconded by B Grills, 6 in favour, B Ireland against, B Lush and P Clark abstained.
B Ireland – procedures to change procedures. He explained that we come to meetings and find procedures have changed, eg declarations of interest, dropping the proposer and seconder – it just happens. J Finch said it was a change of format, not procedure. B Ireland said that whether it be procedures or format changes the council was asked after the event. If we are going to make changes then it has to be voted by council. B Jordan said that B Ireland should not be talking about things he does not know anything about. Next month we have to change the format. Nothing has been done wrong. J Finch said that as the clerk said, if the format is changed then two copies are done so we can decide. A Shaw asked if the reasons why could be included. B Grills said the clerk is working in our best interests, he brings in new ideas. To have two lots of minutes is a waste – I do not want any more paper. We need to accept, discuss them and decide. B Lush said he was finding it confusing and thought there should be a debate. P Clark proposed no changes made without consultation of the full council first, seconded B Ireland, 6 in favour, 3 abstentions. D Pierce added that a lot of these implementations are not from council but from the LGA which forces these ways – it is not going to get any easier.
a Restormal Borough Council. Establishing a Cornwall Assembly, c/f.
b Tony Mogford Associates, safety inspection and risk assessment, B Jordan said there were two or three things which need to be dealt with but the play area is coming to the end of its useful life. There is no self closing on the gate.
c email apology from Clare Ireland – for which the mayor thanked her. B Lush said this had not been council business when first raised, but J Finch said a copy had been sent to the council.
d/e Trefrew Bridge, copy of letter from Peter Mugford to David Hazelhurst, and reply. Asking for storage space in Enfield Park during construction of the bridge. B Ireland asked that B Jordan ensures that he be present when P Mugford and D Hazelhurst meet. D Pierce asked if there was a start date, B Ireland replied 2 April 2007.
f Cornwall Inland Waterski Club – support for disabled skier to use Park Lake on Bodmin Moor – wants to train for the Para Olympics. A Shaw proposed that we write to give support.
g Dan Rogerson MP, closure of St Michael’s Hospital, Hayle – superseded.
h NCDC Gambling Act 2005 – can be viewed on line.
P Clark gave his apologies and left the meeting.
a Approval proposed A Shaw, seconded B Grills, all in favour
b Approval proposed A Shaw, seconded B Lush, all in favour
c J Finch and B Grills left the room, J Finch proposed and S Elford seconded, all in favour, that A Shaw took the chair. Approval proposed by B Ireland, seconded B Lush, all in favour.
d Added item, 1 Sportsmans – B Lush left the room and objection on the grounds of lack of parking or access for additional vehicles proposed by A Shaw, seconded B Grills, 5 in favour, B Ireland, D Pierce abstained.
Planning approval notices and refusal notices per agenda.
Disciplinary Committee meeting 7 August – B Ireland said that his apologies should have been shown on the minutes. Acceptance of minutes proposed A Shaw, seconded D Pierce, 7 in favour, B Ireland abstained. B Ireland said that he would not expect any witnesses to be summoned during a disciplinary hearing. The committee had a letter from the complainant and it should have been discussed with the clerk and the decision made. It is not a court of law. A Shaw said it was part of the format of a disciplinary committee – you are entitled to defend yourself. B Ireland said that you defend yourself in front of your boss – your boss in this case is the council. You should not have to summon anyone from outside. A Shaw said ‘this isn’t a shop’. B Ireland said he worked for a very large organisation, and that the clerk is an employee. J Finch said it was adopted by the council and that is what we had to do.
a Camelford Town Forum – D Pierce said the new clinic was discussed. Forum would write to the PCT and invite them to do a presentation. The school results good and commended.
b CDCDT – to item 17, exempt information.
c Youth Club – meeting 4 September – at full capacity. No bad reports from the summer programme. NCDC grant for TV and laptop being applied for by attendees. Next meeting 16 October.
d HERS – opeways work starting end September, complete by December.
e Mayor’s report – congratulate Camelford in Bloom. Thank A Shaw and D Pierce for pond clearing and B Grills for providing refreshment. Silt needs dredging. Monthly newsletter – one sheet with pictures, leave in shops and if people want to deliver them they can. A Shaw proposed that we try it, to contain names of councillors only, no phone numbers, first one October, two sides of A4. D Pierce said you could spend the whole of the precept on the park and it needs a maintenance programme. A Shaw said that that is part of the policy of Parks for People. There was much interest at the Camelford Show. Suggesting an information day in the park entrance, or over three days, Friday, Saturday and Monday, 9 – 2. Or, suggested A Shaw, it could be held under the arch at the Masons. B Lush asked how many people had put pen to paper at the Show. B Jordan said it was at least 20. J Finch said ‘but a lot of people were talking’. Drainage work has been done on the river and the dead men’s fingers removed.
f D Pierce – Local Development Group meeting clashes with CAB and he is looking for another councillor to attend the CAB meeting on 16 November at 7 pm.
g Amenities Committee re-scheduled to 21 September (previous meeting inquorate.
a Building Control newsletter from NCDC TO a Shaw
b Business matters – re businesses – available
c East Cornwall CVS – available
B Lush – agendas to go on website (David Flower)
B Lush – Roundabout at Valley Truckle (A39/B3266)
B Lush – preservation of town benches
B Ireland – work schedule. B Jordan said there was a schedule of work. B Ireland circulated photographs of work waiting to be done. B Grills said the clerk was not aware of what has to be done.
D Pierce – bus stop seats.
B Grills – apologies for next meeting
To consider passing the following resolution in respect of the items listed below. ‘That the press and public be excluded from the meeting for the following items of business on the grounds that they involve likely disclosure of information prejudicial to the public interest as defined in the Local Government Act 1972.’
a Court Summons – report from Beachcroft
b Land at Tregoodwell – A Shaw has asked for exemption on this item.
Proposed B Grills, seconded S Elford, 7 in favour, B Ireland abstained.
Notes taken and transcribed by Clare Ireland and Mel Baber